NewStats: 3,264,851 , 8,184,899 topics. Date: Thursday, 12 June 2025 at 03:18 PM 506e27

Skyview01:
In both the old and new testament, which individual or person had the most assurance of their salvation and heaven while still alive.

I want to see who reads their Bible.

I will give 5k to the first person who gives the right answer.

If it's the most assurances then I'll surely go for Peter.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:32

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:27,28

illicit:


If u are not saved, will you be in paradise?

If you are not in paradise you are not saved

Paradise is heaven

🤷🏻

Was Zaccheus not in heaven, Jesus told him categorically he will got saved today

In regard to the op question it is only Jesus that have the most assurance of his heaven in the Bible

adeoyekay:
Was Zaccheus not in heaven, Jesus told him categorically he will got saved today

In regard to the op question it is only Jesus that have the most assurance of his heaven in the Bible

He got saved that day

Did he die that day?

Do you know what later happened to him?

Clearly the OP wasn't asking about Jesus

If not, it would have been a very simple question that anyone can answer


✌️

OhGeeBee:

If it's the most assurances then I'll surely go for Peter.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:32

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:27,28

Peter didn't die that day or moment

This same Peter denied Christ afterwards

illicit:


He got saved that day

Did he die that day?

Do you know what later happened to him?

Clearly the OP wasn't asking about Jesus

If not, it would have been a very silly question that anyone can answer


✌️

Go back and read the question again

illicit:
■ If u are not saved, will you be in paradise? If you are not in paradise you are not saved Paradise is heaven 🤷🏻

I am afraid that lie was instead fed you by your pastors and mogs and has nothing to do with what is in fact written of in scripture. That inference is foreign to Scripture.

The paradise where Jesus Christ was at the beginning of that particular, day until the 3rd day, was the grave, and everyone who dies ends up in the grave aka paradise.

OhGeeBee:

If it's the most assurances then I'll surely go for Peter.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. Luke 22:32

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:27,28

You do have a point though but look a the thief on the cross, he was give an exact timeline.

" Today, thou shall be with me in paradise" that was being direct and specific to someone who was already condemned to die as a criminal.
I am fascinated by the conversation Jesus had on the cross. There were two thieves condemned to die. Why was one thief repentant while the other hardened his heart.

Why was the one heart hardened till the end while the other got repentant in the end and went on to to have an iron clad assurance from Jesus himself.

What really happened on that cross in the mind of those two thieves.

illicit:
■ And where did he say the thief will him? In his mother's house?

The following are Jesus Christ's own statements of His whereabouts for the 3 days beginning from the day He was hung on the cross.

21 From that time Jesus began telling his followers that he must go to Jerusalem. He explained that the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and the teachers of the law would make him suffer many things. And he told his followers that he must be killed. Then, on the third day, he would be raised from death. - Matthew 16:21

...

22 Later, the followers met together in Galilee. Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man will be handed over to the control of other men,
23 who will kill him. But on the third day he will be raised from death.” The followers were very sad to hear that Jesus would be killed. - Matthew 17:21-23

...

31 Then Jesus began to teach his followers that the Son of Man must suffer many things. He taught that the Son of Man would not be accepted by the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and the teachers of the law. He said that the Son of Man must be killed and then rise from death after three days. - Mark 8:31

...

32 Jesus and those with him were on their way to Jerusalem. He was at the front of the group. His followers were wondering what was happening, and the people who followed behind them were feeling afraid. Jesus gathered the twelve apostles again and talked with them alone. He told them what would happen in Jerusalem.
33 He said, “We are going to Jerusalem. The Son of Man will be handed over to the leading priests and teachers of the law. They will say that he must die and will hand him over to the foreigners,
34 who will laugh at him and spit on him. They will beat him with whips and kill him. But on the third day after his death, he will rise to life again.” - Mark 10 vs 32 - 34

Is it instead your summation that Jesus Christ must have lied?

And your pastors and mogs instead telling the truth in this?

Since I have know the Kobo moniker, he can make everything about the church to look controversial.

The op is right jare

adeoyekay:
■ Was Zaccheus not in heaven, Jesus told him categorically he will got saved today
In regard to the op question it is only Jesus that have the most assurance of his heaven in the Bible

1. Zaccheus was not in Heaven since Zaccheus gained Salvation by way of the standard that is the Old Law of Moses - Ezekiel 18 vs 1 - 31 & Ezekiel 33 vs 10 - 20. Recall, that Jesus Christ did not preach to Zaccheus. What Jesus Christ instead did was announce that by His act of giving away half of his worth — following the Old Law— Zacchaeus had gained the Old Law's righteousness.

Kobojunkie:
The following are Jesus Christ's own statements of His whereabouts for the 3 days beginning from the day He was hung on the cross.
...
...
...
Is it instead your summation that Jesus Christ must have lied?

And your pastors and mogs instead telling the truth in this?

Is it me?

I don't see any paradise in any of your quotes o


You must die before u go to heaven, sure

Ab0bii:
■ Since I have know the Kobo moniker, he can make everything about the church to look controversial.
The op is right jare

You have this upside down. I didn't make your churches controversial. Instead, your churches have been controversial from their very beginning almost 1900 years ago. Their doctrines and traditions are of that which Jesus Christ warned His followers to steer clear of. I didn't invent all of those controversial doctrines. I simply point them out for what they are.

illicit:
■ Is it me? I don't see any paradise in any of your quotes o. You must die before u go to heaven, sure

Jesus Christ didn't use the word "Paradise" but He made it explicitly clear that He would be in the grave for 3 days beginning from the day He was put on the cross. And what Jesus Christ said to the thief was, "This day you shall be in Paradise with me". Where do we know Jesus Christ was on that day and the 2 days after that?

illicit:


Peter didn't die that day or moment

This same Peter betrayed Christ afterwards

Judas betrayed Jesus not Peter. Jesus prayed for Peter beforehand and he was able to weather the storm.
Besides, Peter lived longer and has the opportunity to work for God, receive the crown of life and also fulfil Jesus prayer of strengthening his brothers in Luke 22:32 and Jesus declaration in Matt. 16:18 an example of that was when he preached on Pentecost and 3000 souls were added to the church.
I'd love to explain better but my phone touchpad is bad.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ didn't use the word "Paradise" but He made it explicitly clear that He would be in the grave for 3 days beginning from the day He was put on the cross. And what Jesus Christ said to the thief was, "This day you shall be in Paradise with me". Where do we know Jesus Christ was on that day and the 2 days after that?

I guess ur day and Jesus Christ's day ain't d same 😶

OhGeeBee:

Judas betrayed Jesus not Peter. Jesus prayed for Peter beforehand and he was able to weather the storm.
Besides, Peter lived longer and has the opportunity to work for God, receive the crown of life and also fulfil Jesus prayer of strengthening his brothers in Luke 22:32 and Jesus declaration in Matt. 16:18 an example of that was when he preached on Pentecost and 3000 souls were added to the church.
I'd love to explain better but my phone touchpad is bad.

I mean denied

*

illicit:
■ Ur day and Jesus Christ day ain't d same 😶

Again, the following are Jesus Christ's statements regarding His whereabouts for the 3 days beginning from the day He was hung on the cross.

21 From that time Jesus began telling his followers that he must go to Jerusalem. He explained that the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and the teachers of the law would make him suffer many things. And he told his followers that he must be killed. Then, on the third day, he would be raised from death. - Matthew 16:21

...

22 Later, the followers met together in Galilee. Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man will be handed over to the control of other men,
23 who will kill him. But on the third day he will be raised from death.” The followers were very sad to hear that Jesus would be killed. - Matthew 17:21-23

...

31 Then Jesus began to teach his followers that the Son of Man must suffer many things. He taught that the Son of Man would not be accepted by the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and the teachers of the law. He said that the Son of Man must be killed and then rise from death after three days. - Mark 8:31

...

32 Jesus and those with him were on their way to Jerusalem. He was at the front of the group. His followers were wondering what was happening, and the people who followed behind them were feeling afraid. Jesus gathered the twelve apostles again and talked with them alone. He told them what would happen in Jerusalem.
33 He said, “We are going to Jerusalem. The Son of Man will be handed over to the leading priests and teachers of the law. They will say that he must die and will hand him over to the foreigners,
34 who will laugh at him and spit on him. They will beat him with whips and kill him. But on the third day after his death, he will rise to life again.” - Mark 10 vs 32 - 34

Jesus Christ didn't use the word "Paradise" but He made it explicitly clear that He would be in the grave for 3 days beginning from the day He was put on the cross. And what Jesus Christ said to the thief was, "This day you shall be in Paradise with me". Where do we know Jesus Christ was on that day and the 2 days after that?

The same Jesus Christ explained in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 45 that NO MAN would be itted into either Heaven or Hell until after He has first returned and then judged them — All of His followers will be judged on the same day. It has been almost 2000 years. Is Jesus Christ's day almost 2000 days long?

Skyview01:


You do have a point though but look a the thief on the cross, he was give an exact timeline.

" Today, thou shall be with me in paradise" that was being direct and specific to someone who was already condemned to die as a criminal.
I am fascinated by the conversation Jesus had on the cross. There were two thieves condemned to die. Why was one thief repentant while the other hardened his heart.

Why was the one heart hardened till the end while the other got repentant in the end and went on to to have an iron clad assurance from Jesus himself.

What really happened on that cross in the mind of those two thieves.

It's just like the case of Judas and Peter.
Peter was has a repentant heart, he was sober and he accept the fact that he's a sinner.
Judas did not have a repentant heart, he's the one with the treasury and Jesus had to perform a miracle before he could pay tithe. When Mary brought expensive alabaster oil and pour it on Jesus feet he was looking to get the oil sold it and put the money in the purse just so that he can embezzle it. All these make it possible for the devil to enter into him and used him.

The thieves, one might be hardened crimal while the other was just a victim of circumstances they were under the Roman empire then.

illicit:


Yeah sure

He did

Pls unquote me, remove my acct number

Just did.

Hey kobojunkie

Check this out
https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/thief-on-cross

illicit:
Hey kobojunkie. Check this out
https://www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/thief-on-cross

You know by now that I never take the opinion of others for much when it comes to Scripture, right? I base everything I hold on exactly that stated in Scripture. So, what do you intend for me to pull from that link by the way?

▢ That Jesus Christ lied when He said that He would be in the grave those 3 days - Matthew 16:21 & Matthew 17:21-23 & Mark 8:31 & even Mark 10 vs 32 - 34?
▢ Or that Jesus Christ lied when He said that no man would be itted into Heaven(and Hellfire) until after He had returned and Judged all the goats and sheep in His flock - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46? Which?

illicit:


He got saved that day

Did he die that day?

Do you know what later happened to him?

Clearly the OP wasn't asking about Jesus

If not, it would have been a very silly question that anyone can answer


✌️

Jesus did not need assurance of heaven as he was man and God at the same time while on earth.

It is humans that need assurance of heaven and for the most part we believe the bible and have faith that once we repent of our sins and asked God to come into our lives, we are saved by faith, yet we don't know when we are going to die and whether we are going to lose our salvation or not.

The case for the thief was different, he knew when he was going to die.

Jesus was right there with him at the point of death.

Jesus told him directly " Today, you will be with me in paradise"

For me, I like to believe paradise being construed to mean same as heaven but right there is the most assurance any human can have, both in all of recorded old and new testament, a direct, physical encounter with a God who was man at point of death and those words that changed the trajectory of thief's destiny.

Kobojunkie:
You know by now that I never take the opinion of others for much when it comes to Scripture, right? I base everything I hold on exactly that stated in Scripture. So, what do you intend for me to pull from that link by the way?

▢ That Jesus Christ lied when He said that He would be in the grave those 3 days - Matthew 16:21 & Matthew 17:21-23 & Mark 8:31 & even Mark 10 vs 32 - 34?
▢ Or that Jesus Christ lied when He said that no man would be itted into Heaven(and Hellfire) until after He had returned and Judged all the goats and sheep in His flock - Matthew 25 vs 31 - 46? Which?

None of the above

Check it out

illicit:
■ None of the above. Check it out

Then why do you wish for me to check it out? Be specific!

Salvation.

Kobojunkie:
Then why do you wish for me to check it out? Be specific!

Alright don't bother

✌️

OhGeeBee:

It's just like the case of Judas and Peter.
Peter was has a repentant heart, he was sober and he accept the fact that he's a sinner.
Judas did not have a repentant heart, he's the one with the treasury and Jesus had to perform a miracle before he could pay tithe. When Mary brought expensive alabaster oil and pour it on Jesus feet he was looking to get the oil sold it and put the money in the purse just so that he can embezzle it. All these make it possible for the devil to enter into him and used him.

The thieves, one might be hardened crimal while the other was just a victim of circumstances they were under the Roman empire then.

Totally strokes different bro.

Judas and Peter were already Christ followers who had backslidden at some point. They knew what It means to follow Christ and saw first hand and Jesus teachings and miracles.

The two thiefs, on the other hand, had never believed in Christ, might never had witnessed any of His teachings or miracles and were career criminals, condemned to die for their crimes.

I believe the part of the Bible that says it is "It is God who works in the heart of a man both to will and to do his good pleasures"

I may not have quoted that verse correctly but important take aways for me are;

1. You do not have the power to accept Christ by yourself if the Holy Spirit did not work on your heart to draw you. You will be hardened to the end.

2. The Holy spirit will not always draw you if you keep resisting.


3. God will give you a chance or chances throughout life to ammend your ways and turn to him through his Spirit and if you continually harden your heart, God may very well give up on you.

3. The thief that was hardened to the end must have gotten a lot of prodding by the holly spirit in the past and had hardened his heart.

He was even abusing Christ on the cross and not contemplating his own gloomy fate.

4. The repentant thief, when the Holy Spirit reached out to him on the cross, did not harden his heart, was contrite and even rebuked the other thief and then turned to Jesus with that request " me when you get to your kindom", a sign on repentance.

That draws the line between the two thieves and separated the destiny of one from the other.

It means, you cannot just say, I will continue in sin and repent any time I like, that is not possible and if the Holy spirit did not draw your heart you may be hardened to the end like the unrepentant thief.

Skyview01:
■ Jesus did not need assurance of heaven as he was man and God at the same time while on earth. It is humans that need assurance of heaven and for the most part we believe the bible and have faith that once we repent of our sins and asked God to come into our lives, we are saved by faith, yet we don't know when we are going to die and whether we are going to lose our salvation or not. The case for the thief was different, he knew when he was going to die.
Jesus was right there with him at the point of death. Jesus told him directly " Today, you will be with me in paradise" For me, I like to believe paradise being construed to mean same as heaven but right there is the most assurance any human can have, both in all of recorded old and new testament, a direct, physical encounter with a God who was man at point of death and those words that changed the trajectory of thief's destiny.

But what you claim to believe directly contradicts Jesus Christ. How can you be against Jesus Christ and at the same time claim to be for Him? It is akin to saying Jesus Christ was in fact a liar!

Kobojunkie:
But what you claim to believe directly contradicts Jesus Christ. How can you be against Jesus Christ and at the same time claim to be for Him? It is akin to saying Jesus Christ was in fact a liar!

He did mention paradise at the time, on the cross and after resurrection talked about ascension to heaven with his disciples.

I think what we can argue would be if the allusion to paradise at the cross was the same as heaven.

, repentant thief did not mention paradise in his plea to Jesus on the cross, he only asked to be ed when Jesus got to his kingdom and in response, Jesus had said the thief would be with him in paradise the same day.

Skyview01:
■ He did mention paradise at the time, on the cross
■ and after resurrection talked about ascension to heaven with his disciples.

3 things...

▢ Jesus Christ never said the thief on the cross was saved by the conversation He, Jesus Chris, had with Him: There are several others in the same Scripture that Jesus Christ had conversations with that were never saved as a result of it. So why assume that because Jesus Christ spoke to the man on the cross, he, the man must have been saved under just that?

▢ Jesus Christ never said the word Paradise means Heaven: So why conclude that Paradise must mean Heaven when nothing in that conversation or Jesus Christ's statements of His whereabouts for those 3 days — and today — hint at Paradise being another term for Heaven?

▢ Jesus Christ spoke of His ascension, even before the fact of it, but He never said anyone was going up to Heaven with Him: As a matter of fact, Jesus Christ was clear that the only way they would Him was after He had returned to take them with Him. Has Jesus Christ returned to take His followers with Him to His fathers' house?

Skyview01:
■ I think what we can argue would be if the allusion to paradise at the cross was the same as heaven. , repentant thief did not mention paradise in his plea to Jesus on the cross, he only asked to be ed when Jesus got to his kingdom and in response, Jesus had said the thief would be with him in paradise the same day.

How do you know the thief was repentant? By which of God's standards do you judge him as a repentant thief? What was it he said that led you to believe him a repentant soul?

And recall that all Jesus Christ said in response to what your "repentant" thief said was, "Today, you shall be with me in paradise." How do you leap over that simple one-line to all you claim to believe in? Whereabouts in Scripture did you come up with the many additions to that one statement?

Kobojunkie:
3 things...

▢ Jesus Christ never said the thief on the cross was saved by the conversation He, Jesus Chris, had with Him: There are several others in the same Scripture that Jesus Christ had conversations with that were never saved as a result of it. So why assume that because Jesus Christ spoke to the man on the cross, he, the man must have been saved under just that?

▢ Jesus Christ never said the word Paradise means Heaven: So why conclude that Paradise must mean Heaven when nothing in that conversation or Jesus Christ's statements of His whereabouts for those 3 days — and today — hint at Paradise being another term for Heaven?

▢ Jesus Christ spoke of His ascension, even before the fact of it, but He never said anyone was going up to Heaven with Him: As a matter of fact, Jesus Christ was clear that the only way they would Him was after He had returned to take them with Him. Has Jesus Christ returned to take His followers with Him to His fathers' house?

You make a good argument but I would base like to shed more lights on my assumed conversion of the repentant thief .

True, Jesus had had conversations with lots of people, some recorded in the Bible and other offline but there is no where in the Bible Jesus had told anyone " Today, thou shall be with me in paradise".

To be with Christ after death, It would be in order to imply the thief asking for salvation and Jesus granting him his wishes.

Are you implying the thief was never saved, that he went on to paradise or heaven without salvation and went on to be with Jesus after death?

I am basing my bible verses on the KJV of the Bible.