NewStats: 3,265,391 , 8,186,588 topics. Date: Saturday, 14 June 2025 at 06:12 PM o656k

MaxInDHouse:


I perfectly agree with the bolded but why do you now assume people who just claim CHRISTIANS are true Christians when they DISREGARD what Jesus taught?

Smh look at charcoal calling snow white black. You're suddenly concerned about people misrepresenting Jesus' teaching when you've been cherry-picking scripture to suit your own agenda.

TheDevilsBride:

Tsk, tsk. It seems your Jesus-shaped glasses are fogging up your ability to see the forest of hypocrisy for the trees of irrational, mindless dogma.

Guy leave grammar and face the fact if people today are claiming "CHRISTIANS" and they have no other character to point to as their LORD whose orders they are following you who thinks you are intelligent should be able to tell them point-blank that they aren't following what is written as teachings of the CHRIST.

TheDevilsBride:

Smh look at charcoal calling snow white black. You're suddenly concerned about people misrepresenting Jesus' teaching when you've been cherry-picking scripture to suit your own agenda.

Point to a verse where Jesus taught his disciples to fight and kill their enemies or where he fought to kill an enemy.

There is no cherry picking here it's there in the book!

MaxInDHouse:

Guy leave grammar and face the fact if people today are claiming "CHRISTIANS" and they have no other character to point to as their LORD whose orders they are following you who thinks you are intelligent should be able to tell them point-blank that they aren't following what is written as teachings of the CHRIST.

I don't claim to be intelligent, but I'm obviously not stupid enough to believe that a 2,000-year-old text written by nomadic tribesmen is the ultimate authority on morality, smh, lmao .

@ TheDevilsBride

When i told you that you don't even know what it means to be a Christian you thought it's a joke shey?

Prove those fighting and killing their so called ENEMIES are true followers of Jesus Christ through the teachings of Jesus not just their claims!

TheDevilsBride:

I don't claim to be intelligent, but I'm obviously not stupid enough to believe that a 2,000-year-old text written by nomadic tribesmen is the ultimate authority on morality, smh, lmao .

Good!
So if you don't believe in what the book says that's fine but saying those who are not practicing what the character they are referring to as "LORD" teaches are his followers is self deceit Sir! Matthew 7:21-23

MaxInDHouse:


Point to a verse where Jesus taught his disciples to fight and kill their enemies or where he fought to kill an enemy.

There is no cherry picking here it's there in the book!

But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one".
- Luke 22:36

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"
- Matthew 10:34

Go ahead and twist this one inside out, as I expect you to.

TheDevilsBride:

But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one".
- Luke 22:36
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword"
- Matthew 10:34

Go ahead and twist this one inside out, as I expect you to.

There is no twisting the book says this man TEACHES IN PARABLES {Matthew 13:13, 34} so instead of quoting what he said which none of his disciples acted upon literally why not figure out where he lead by example or where his disciples practice what you think he meant?

If Jesus never used a sword against anyone, condemned the act which his closest confidant carried out and thereafter none of his disciples ever tried it again does that not show you he didn't mean what you think?

@ TheDevilsBride

Jesus said a lot but instead of jumping to conclusion after hearing him we were told to FOLLOW HIS FOOTSTEPS CLOSELY {1Peter 2:21} he never taught us to hurt our enemies rather he said we should love and pray for their well-being! Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-28

So i ask you again who are those fighting and killing their own enemies?

Do you still think they are his followers?

Leave the matter whether he is real or not for now!

@ TheDevilsBride

Here is the same Jesus talking in that same chapter you quoted earlier:

“Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet harmless as doves" Matthew 10:16

After this he said:

Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Matthew 10:34-36

He explained what he meant by SWORD that his teachings will cause a division among families as many will find it stupid while few will take it seriously so those who think it's stupidity will hate and treat those believing badly.

@ Luke 22:36

The SWORD he meant was understood by his disciples to mean full copy of God's word {Ephesians 6:17} that's why you can't see one instance where his disciples fought or kill anyone!

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

This is why true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) each always have a copy of the Bible no matter how poor he or she may be because man must not live on bread (food) alone but by the utterances that protrudes out of Jehovah's mouth! Matthew 4:4; Deuteronomy 8:3

These fragmented responses we've been making back and forth to each other are starting to make me feel real dizzy, so if you don't mind, I've taken the liberty to combine them all in one post. Now I'll address your latest points one after the other. It might be quite the lengthy read, so my apologies in advance:

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MaxInDHouse:
@ TheDevils.Bride

When i told you that you don't even know what it means to be a Christian you thought it's a joke shey?

Prove those fighting and killing their so called ENEMIES are true followers of Jesus Christ through the teachings of Jesus not just their claims!

Sorry to inform you, dear Max, that it doesn't work that way. As a matter of fact, YOU are the one who must demonstrate how those Christians are not "true followers" of Christ, because as far as they know, they shed blood and took countless lives in his name, and for the sole purpose of advancing his gospel, spreading it to all nations. What you have committed here is a No True Scotsman fallacy. That would be like me denying you're a Nigerian because you bear an English name.

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TheDevilsBride:


I don't claim to be intelligent, but I'm obviously not stupid enough to believe that a 2,000-year-old text written by nomadic tribesmen is the ultimate authority on morality, smh, lmao .

MaxInDHouse:

Good!
So if you don't believe in what the book says that's fine but saying those who are not practicing what the character they are referring to as "LORD" teaches are his followers is self deceit Sir! Matthew 7:21-23

Not surprised, smh, that you ran back to scriptures as usual. Of course, it's way much easier for you to quote scriptures and pretend that it's the ultimate authority, forgetting the fact that the very concept of "Christianity" has evolved over the centuries, influenced by regional and/or cultural, philosophical, historical, and social contexts, and that the Bible is but one of MANY factors that shape the beliefs and practices of Christians today.

Doesn't it weaken or tire you out, chasing your own tail with this circular logic, you keep using? I mean, have you even stopped dead in your tracks, and sat down to consider the very real possibility, that perhaps the reason why many self-proclaimed Christians do not adhere to Jesus' teachings, even as they are recorded in the Bible, is because the vast majority of those teachings are often so sufficiently vague or contradictory, that they defy reason and/or are simply impractical in our modern societal climate?

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3>

MaxInDHouse:
There is no twisting the book says this man TEACHES IN PARABLES {Matthew 13:13, 34} so instead of quoting what he said which none of his disciples acted upon literally why not figure out where he lead by example or where his disciples practice what you think he meant?

Funny you should talk about "leading by example". I'm sure turning the other cheek is a perfect example, 'specially right after you've just bought a sword, and sold your cloak to do so, lol.

If Jesus never used a sword against anyone, condemned the act which his closest confidant carried out and thereafter none of his disciples ever tried it again does that not show you he didn't mean what you think?

Weak defense. It's true, Peter, one of Jesus' closest confidants, did use a sword, and Jesus didn't exactly praise him for it. But you've managed to miss the point, as usual. What you should have observed here, Max, is that Jesus' teachings, taken at face value, can be interpreted to condone violence, at the very least. I suppose going by your weird logic, an army general who orders his troops into battle isn't responsible for any bloodshed, afterall, he didn't personally fire a shot nau, lmao.

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MaxInDHouse:
@ TheDevils.Bride

Jesus said a lot but instead of jumping to conclusion after hearing him we were told to FOLLOW HIS FOOTSTEPS CLOSELY {1Peter 2:21} he never taught us to hurt our enemies rather he said we should love and pray for their well-being! Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6:27-28

Ah yes, I can totally envision the loving, conflict avoidant and easy going temperament in Jesus as he was flipping tables and whipping merchants in the temple.

So i ask you again who are those fighting and killing their own enemies?

Do you still think they are his followers?

Leave the matter whether he is real or not for now!

This dishonest contortion of clearly written texts, that you're indulging in, is quite frankly, starting to annoy me. The spirit of mendacity is clearly at play here. You're sounding as slippery as a snake oil salesman. The sword wasn't for cutting bread, my dear friend, so quit messing around.

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MaxInDHouse:


Here is the same Jesus talking in that same chapter you quoted earlier:

“Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet harmless as doves" Matthew 10:16

So? The only thing this proves is that Jesus' teachings are as consistent as a Nigerian politician's promises, lmao.

After this he said:

Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Matthew 10:34-36

He explained what he meant by SWORD that his teachings will cause a division among families as many will find it stupid while few will take it seriously so those who think it's stupidity will hate and treat those believing badly.

Wawu! So Jesus' sword is acting metaphorical, but I'm sure the swords his disciples were instructed to buy in Luke 22:36 were purely for the purposes of cutting grass and hunting all the bush meat in Jerusalem .

@ Luke 22:36

The SWORD he meant was understood by his disciples to mean full copy of God's word {Ephesians 6:17} that's why you can't see one instance where his disciples fought or kill anyone!

As the compulsive cherry-picker you lot are, it should come as no surprise that you readily pick and choose what the parts of the Bible are intended to be metaphorical, and what parts are intended to be literal.

Surely, if Jesus had truly meant to say "go buy a Bible," shouldn't he have, you know, simply just said that? Instead, he chooses to waffle about swords, and his disciples, being clever fellows, understood him to mean actual, physical swords.

So tell me, Max, where then is this "understanding" of the disciples recorded? Perhaps I must have missed that part where they're like, "Oh, Jesus means we should buy Bibles, not swords!", but nope, didn't happen, lol.

What did happen, however, was that they responded by saying, "Look, Lord, we have two swords here." (Luke 22:38) Not exactly the response you'd expect if they really thought Jesus was indeed, talking about spiritual swords, lmao.

Lucifyre:

Man you just info dumped on me, that's a lot 😅. It's all good though, I'd just try nitpick through. First before making assertions about what faith can be, you need to define what exactly it is and going by the biblical definition alone already contradicts almost all your assertions. Heb 11:1 which you quoted basically contradicts that "Now faith is the confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see". That alone doesn't even your assertions in the first place.

Now if we take the literal definition(Britannica), it defines faith as "something that is believed without being questioned or doubted ". Another definition from same source states "to accept (something) as true without proof or evidence that it is true". The definitions alone floor your assertions, even the bible. So where do you get your assertions from. You're practically imposing what you want it to be to fit your assertions, like how you guys renegotiate your texts.

The very definitions of faith shows its not compatible with logic. Now i'm not saying faith is illogical but it is a flawed process, it's basically the least form of acceptance and there's a reason it's the least and that's cause it simply can't be used to establish truth whatsoever. It is non-logical. Also there's a reason faith is mostly only used in religious contexts to establish something is true and nowhere else. Logic on the other hand is applied virtually everywhere even computers, because its consistent and non-contradictory which faith is obviously not.

As for the evidence you talk about, anecdotal subjective evidence is not evidence. I'm not sure if you've read up any of the evidence or even the one you cited cause if you study it, it basically contradicts majority of what's in the bible and that's asides from the bible contradicting itself which is impossible with logic. i find it funny when Josephus and Tacitus are quoted by christains cause it doesn't even tell us anything about Jesus' life save for the fact that he likely existed and was killed for been a nuisance to the romans, nothing about his resurrection or miracles or details of his life.

And the refs are very short on the side mentions when discussing something else, so he wasn't even the focus in those sources, a short line or two in the docs discussing something else. Most other evidences(be it historical, archeological or textual) majorly contradicts what's in the bible just as it contradicts itself like i earlier stated. So it's virtually incompatible for faith and logic to coexist. Faith doesn't lead to a creator, it suggests creators of which your particular arbitrarily selected faith settles you on a creator/creators dependendent on if your faith is polytheistic or monotheistic.

Way too kafakaesque to be logical, so it can't be used as a pathway to truth. Truth is objective, demonstrable, falsifiable and replicable which doesn't work with faith at all, no matter the particular faith belief you settle on out of the numerous ones existing and those that have existed. Also you do realise your bible is the claim and not the evidence, so citing the claim as evidence is funny, circular and fallacious.

Ah, I love your responses, thank you.

+ Faith vs. Logic: Can Faith Be Rational?

Your Claim:

Faith, by definition, is belief without proof, which contradicts logic. Faith cannot establish truth because truth is objective, demonstrable, falsifiable, and replicable.

Answer:

Faith is not necessarily opposed to logic—it depends on how one defines it. There’s a difference between:

Blind faith – belief without reason or evidence.

Reasoned faith – trust based on indirect evidence, inference, or probability.


For example:

We "have faith" that the sun will rise tomorrow, though we haven’t yet observed tomorrow.

Scientists “trust” foundational principles (axioms) in math or physics that aren’t empirically proven but are necessary for logical systems to work.

Historians rely on testimonies and documents from the past, trusting sources with reasonable credibility.


Christian philosophers argue that faith in God is not blind but based on logical inference from cosmology (Kalam argument), morality, fine-tuning of the universe, and personal experience. While these may not meet scientific falsifiability standards, neither do many philosophical or historical conclusions, yet they are still considered rational.

Do you disagree?


+ Historical Evidence; Does Jesus’ Mention in Secular Sources Matter?

Your Claim:

Josephus and Tacitus barely mention Jesus, and they don’t affirm miracles or resurrection, so they don’t Christianity’s supernatural claims.

Answer:

Tacitus, Josephus, Suetonius, Pliny the Younger, and other sources collectively confirm:

Jesus was a real historical figure.

He was crucified under Pontius Pilate.

He had followers who strongly believed in his resurrection.


While these sources don’t prove supernatural claims, they lend credibility to the idea that early Christians genuinely believed in them. The argument follows: if Jesus’ disciples were willing to die for their claims (rather than it they lied), that at least makes their conviction historically significant.

Additionally, skeptics sometimes say the Gospels are unreliable because they contain miraculous claims. But if we use that logic, should we dismiss all ancient sources that contain supernatural elements, even when they report historical events? Historians analyze all sources critically rather than rejecting them outright.
For example:
I, Alexander the Great – Ancient sources (Arrian, Plutarch) claim he was the son of Zeus and born after his mother was visited by a serpent. Despite this, historians accept his conquests as historical.


II, Julius Caesar – Suetonius and Plutarch mention omens predicting his assassination, like his wife’s dream and a soothsayer’s warning. Historians still accept his life and death as factual.


III, Emperor Vespasian – Tacitus and Suetonius report that he performed miracles, like healing a blind man. His reign as emperor is still historically accepted.


IV, Hannibal’s Alps Crossing – Polybius and Livy describe divine omens before his campaign. Historians accept the event while setting aside the supernatural claims.

Do you disagree?


+ Faith in Non-Religious Contexts

Your Claim:

Faith is mostly used in religious contexts. Logic, however, is universally applicable and used in all fields.

Answer:

Faith is not exclusive to religion. It exists in various forms:

Science: Many accept the Big Bang or string theory without fully understanding the math and physics behind them. This is a form of trust in scientific consensus.

History: People believe historical s (like Alexander the Great’s conquests) without demanding firsthand proof.

Everyday life: Trusting a bridge won’t collapse when you cross it is a form of reasonable faith in engineering and physics.


The key difference is that non-religious faith is typically based on prior evidence and open to testing, whereas religious faith often isn't. However, some argue that religious faith is also based on perceived experiences, philosophical reasoning, and historical claims.

Do you disagree?

+ Biblical Contradictions
Your Claim:

The Bible contradicts itself, making it logically inconsistent.

Answer:
Have you read the bible cover to cover, or your conclusion on the "contradictions" stem from reading one or two or a few pages here and there?

Many so-called contradictions result from:

1. Context differences: Different authors wrote with different perspectives, but this doesn't necessarily mean contradiction.


2. Translation issues: Some discrepancies arise from language differences between Hebrew, Greek, and English.


3. Scribal variations: Minor numerical differences (e.g., different counts of people in genealogies) are common in ancient texts and don’t affect the Bible’s core message.



For example:

Resurrection s: The Gospels describe the resurrection from different viewpoints, but the core claim (Jesus rising) remains consistent. Courts accept varying testimonies as long as the core facts align.

Genealogy of Jesus: Matthew and Luke’s genealogies differ because Matthew traces legal lineage through Joseph, while Luke likely traces biological lineage through Mary.


Critics argue these are contradictions, but theologians say they are harmonizations of different perspectives, not logical inconsistencies.

Do you disagree?

Another info dumping, haha.
Please info dump me too. I will read all that you have to say.

Do tell me if I missed any point in your argument, Lucifyre.

Nachmonides.

So tell me, Max, where then is this "understanding" of the disciples recorded? Perhaps I must have missed that part where they're like, "Oh, Jesus means we should buy Bibles, not swords!", but nope, didn't happen, lol.

Sorry Miss/Mrs that's how hard it is to break the faith of a true believer! Isaiah 54:17

Peter the same person who was reproved for using a sword against an enemy is the one who told them to follow Jesus' FOOTSTEPS CLOSELY. 1Peter 2:21

That's the person Jesus told directly to (feed) his sheep {John 21:15} and don't forget that Jesus promised to send Holy Spirit to teach this few men {John 16:12-13} who were given the task to spread Jesus' teachings {Matthew 28:19-20} and the KEY to unravel sacred secrets in his teachings was given to the same Peter {Matthew 16:19} in order to teach others.

Do you that it's the same Peter who always stand up among the twelve to defend what Jesus taught them? Act 2:14; 3:6,12; 4:8; 5:29

So it's the same Peter who told us to follow Jesus' FOOTSTEPS CLOSELY {1Peter 2:21} not jumping to conclusion over what he said that we find very difficult to grasp!

Lucifyre:

Man you just info dumped on me, that's a lot 😅. It's all good though, I'd just try nitpick through. First before making assertions about what faith can be, you need to define what exactly it is and going by the biblical definition alone already contradicts almost all your assertions. Heb 11:1 which you quoted basically contradicts that "Now faith is the confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see". That alone doesn't even your assertions in the first place.

Now if we take the literal definition(Britannica), it defines faith as "something that is believed without being questioned or doubted ". Another definition from same source states "to accept (something) as true without proof or evidence that it is true". The definitions alone floor your assertions, even the bible. So where do you get your assertions from. You're practically imposing what you want it to be to fit your assertions, like how you guys renegotiate your texts.

The very definitions of faith shows its not compatible with logic. Now i'm not saying faith is illogical but it is a flawed process, it's basically the least form of acceptance and there's a reason it's the least and that's cause it simply can't be used to establish truth whatsoever. It is non-logical. Also there's a reason faith is mostly only used in religious contexts to establish something is true and nowhere else. Logic on the other hand is applied virtually everywhere even computers, because its consistent and non-contradictory which faith is obviously not.

As for the evidence you talk about, anecdotal subjective evidence is not evidence. I'm not sure if you've read up any of the evidence or even the one you cited cause if you study it, it basically contradicts majority of what's in the bible and that's asides from the bible contradicting itself which is impossible with logic. i find it funny when Josephus and Tacitus are quoted by christains cause it doesn't even tell us anything about Jesus' life save for the fact that he likely existed and was killed for been a nuisance to the romans, nothing about his resurrection or miracles or details of his life.

And the refs are very short on the side mentions when discussing something else, so he wasn't even the focus in those sources, a short line or two in the docs discussing something else. Most other evidences(be it historical, archeological or textual) majorly contradicts what's in the bible just as it contradicts itself like i earlier stated. So it's virtually incompatible for faith and logic to coexist. Faith doesn't lead to a creator, it suggests creators of which your particular arbitrarily selected faith settles you on a creator/creators dependendent on if your faith is polytheistic or monotheistic.

Way too kafakaesque to be logical, so it can't be used as a pathway to truth. Truth is objective, demonstrable, falsifiable and replicable which doesn't work with faith at all, no matter the particular faith belief you settle on out of the numerous ones existing and those that have existed. Also you do realise your bible is the claim and not the evidence, so citing the claim as evidence is funny, circular and fallacious.

On faith again.
The original Greek text of Hebrews 11:1 is:

"Ἔστιν δὲ πίστις ἐλπιζομένων ὑπόστασις, πραγμάτων ἔλεγχος οὐ βλεπομένων."

Word-by-Word Breakdown:

1. πίστις (pistis) → Faith, trust, belief, conviction


2. ἐλπιζομένων (elpizomenōn) → Things hoped for, expected


3. ὑπόστασις (hypostasis) → Substance, foundation, assurance, confidence


4. πραγμάτων (pragmatōn) → Matters, things, realities


5. ἔλεγχος (elegchos) → Evidence, proof, conviction


6. οὐ βλεπομένων (ou blepomenōn) → Not seen, unseen



Literal Translation:

"Now faith is the substance (or assurance) of things hoped for, the evidence (or conviction) of things not seen."


If you're to be honest or take yourself to be a man of reason, you can't read that and say it is arbitrary belief without reason.


This definition of faith does not mean blind belief without reason but rather a deep trust in something not yet visible. It suggests that faith is an active confidence, not mere wishful thinking.

We must ask, why should one have confidence in something? — that means there's a past action, a premise that demands it. Then we should ask after, what is the past action and how can we prove it is true, using the methods available to us, scientifically.

I'll leave this here:
A scientist has faith in a black hole’s existence based on gravitational effects, even if they can’t see it directly.

A Christian has faith in God based on historical s, changed lives, and logical reasoning, even without physically seeing Him.

Nachmonides:


On faith again.
The original Greek text of Hebrews 11:1 is:

"Ἔστιν δὲ πίστις ἐλπιζομένων ὑπόστασις, πραγμάτων ἔλεγχος οὐ βλεπομένων."

Word-by-Word Breakdown:

1. πίστις (pistis) → Faith, trust, belief, conviction


2. ἐλπιζομένων (elpizomenōn) → Things hoped for, expected


3. ὑπόστασις (hypostasis) → Substance, foundation, assurance, confidence


4. πραγμάτων (pragmatōn) → Matters, things, realities


5. ἔλεγχος (elegchos) → Evidence, proof, conviction


6. οὐ βλεπομένων (ou blepomenōn) → Not seen, unseen



Literal Translation:

"Now faith is the substance (or assurance) of things hoped for, the evidence (or conviction) of things not seen."


If you're to be honest or take yourself to be a man of reason, you can't read that and say it is arbitrary belief without reason.


This definition of faith does not mean blind belief without reason but rather a deep trust in something not yet visible. It suggests that faith is an active confidence, not mere wishful thinking.

We must ask, why should one have confidence in something? — that means there's a past action, a premise that demands it. Then we should ask after, what is the past action and how can we prove it is true, using the methods available to us, scientifically.

I'll leave this here:
A scientist has faith in a black hole’s existence based on gravitational effects, even if they can’t see it directly.

A Christian has faith in God based on historical s, changed lives, and logical reasoning, even without physically seeing Him.

Interesting conversation here, I must say. I'm not really chanced with enough time, to contribute at the moment, even though I have lots to say. I've left open tabs though, so will definitely be dropping by to contribute in the near future.

MaxInDHouse:


Sorry Miss/Mrs that's how hard it is to break the faith of a true believer! Isaiah 54:17

Peter the same person who was reproved for using a sword against an enemy is the one who told them to follow Jesus' FOOTSTEPS CLOSELY. 1Peter 2:21

That's the person Jesus told directly to (feed) his sheep {John 21:15} and don't forget that Jesus promised to send Holy Spirit to teach this few men {John 16:12-13} who were given the task to spread Jesus' teachings {Matthew 28:19-20} and the KEY to unravel sacred secrets in his teachings was given to the same Peter {Matthew 16:19} in order to teach others.

Do you that it's the same Peter who always stand up among the twelve to defend what Jesus taught them? Act 2:14; 3:6,12; 4:8; 5:29

So it's the same Peter who told us to follow Jesus' FOOTSTEPS CLOSELY {1Peter 2:21} not jumping to conclusion over what he said that we find very difficult to grasp!

Why didn't you quote me directly in this response? Were you hoping you'd slip it past me and I won't read it ?

Now you have insisted, by all means, on trying to shift the focus to Peter's later writings, where he tells his followers to "follow in his [Jesus'] footsteps closely" (1 Peter 2:21). But then again, what is the relevance of this particular information, to the fact that Jesus' disciples clearly misunderstood his metaphorical language?

No one is jumping to conclusions here, my friend. You're the one who seems to be struggling at understanding the import of your own statements. Jesus' teachings are actually not difficult to grasp; it's just snake oil salesmen, who always make things convoluted, for no apparent reason, performing ingenious hermeneutical acrobatics to reconcile the obvious ambiguities that riddle the scriptures.

Abeg wetin dey there, for Isaiah 54:17, that you think is your trump card because it says "no weapon forged against you will prevail"? If you're trying to imply that Jesus' teachings are somehow immune to criticism or scrutiny, then you've failed spectacularly because you will just be itting that your religion stifles critical thinking and therefore encourages intellectual dishonesty. Are you willing to make this concession?

TheDevilsBride:

Why didn't you quote me directly in this response? Were you hoping you'd slip it past me and I won't read it ?
Now you have insisted, by all means, on trying to shift the focus to Peter's later writings, where he tells his followers to "follow in his [Jesus'] footsteps closely" (1 Peter 2:21). But then again, what is the relevance of this particular information, to the fact that Jesus' disciples clearly misunderstood his metaphorical language?

No one is jumping to conclusions here, my friend. You're the one who seems to be struggling at understanding the import of your own statements. Jesus' teachings are actually not difficult to grasp; it's just snake oil salesmen, who always make things convoluted, for no apparent reason, performing ingenious hermeneutical acrobatics to reconcile the obvious ambiguities that riddle the scriptures.

Abeg wetin dey there, for Isaiah 54:17, that you think is your trump card because it says "no weapon forged against you will prevail"? If you're trying to imply that Jesus' teachings are somehow immune to criticism or scrutiny, then you've failed spectacularly because you will just be itting that your religion stifles critical thinking and therefore encourages intellectual dishonesty. Are you willing to make this concession?

I don't like lengthy talks when the point has been made, you question is simple:

How did Jesus' followers found out that the sword wasn't literal?

I don't know your age but if your own dad should say you must be cautious as serpent and harmless as dove {Matthew 10:16} and later said each of his children needs a sword and you have never seen him use a weapon before but the same day he rebooked your own brother who used a sword {Matthew 26:52} will you just assume he is crazy?

Regarding Isaiah 54:17 it simply means your intelligence is far below that of the true Christian because you are trying to convince them to trash their faith which is their most valuable asset.
So no matter what you say it won't work unless you can present the gathering of sane people who are wiser than believers which is impossible!

MaxInDHouse:


I don't like lengthy talks when the point has been made, you question is simple:

How did Jesus' followers found out that the sword wasn't literal?

I don't know your age but if your own dad should say you must be cautious as serpent and harmless as dove {Matthew 10:16} and later said each of his children needs a sword and you have never seen him use a weapon before but the same day he rebooked your own brother who used a sword {Matthew 26:52} will you just assume he is crazy?

Regarding Isaiah 54:17 it simply means your intelligence is far below that of the true Christian because you are trying to convince them to trash their faith which is their most valuable asset.
So no matter what you say it won't work unless you can present the gathering of sane people who are wiser than believers which is impossible!

I'll start by answering your analogy about my dad telling me to be as "cautious as a serpent", yada yada yada...

Now, I wouldn't call him crazy, if I'm being honest. I might, however, simply just call him confusing, and a bit inconsistent as well. Also, I'd need him to explain himself further. What I would definitely NOT do, since I prefer not to make stuff up, is to engage in the kind of mental gymnastics your ilk are very adept at.

And just in case he doubled down, and told me that the only way to understand his instructions was to blindly trust the interpretations of MaxInDHouse and no one else, except maybe a few others, I’d probably suggest to him that he lay off the sacramental wine for a while, lmao.

Faith, in my books, requires no evidence, making it impervious to any and all reasoned arguments. Doesn't mean it should be elevated above scrutiny though. Careful and honest examination of your beliefs could not only save you from intellectual stagnancy, maybe you might stumble onto factual information that proves your beliefs! Who knows? Unfortunately for you, it would appear that critical thinking and intellectual honesty are concepts alien to you, and you wish it to remain that way.

I literally laughed out loud (lol) though, when you dropped the cute little spiel of "gathering of sane people wiser than believers", when we have luminaries of science, philosophy, art and literature like Einstein, Newton etc etc, whose contributions to human knowledge, have demonstrated wisdom far beyond the confines of religious dogma, and even till this day, we enjoy the fruits of their endeavors.

So if you like, keep swinging Isaiah 54:17 in people's faces, like a 4 year old toddler brandishing a plastic sword and declaring himself invincible, smh, lmao. Your faith is nothing but a prison where you've deserted your brain in, and threw away the keys, without even looking.

And abeg, where is this team, abi gathering of believers, that you think are wise beyond all else, hmmm? With all due respect, I just hope you're not referring of the circus acts we have here on this website, that pretend to be apologists, but can't even tell their left from their right, or tie their own shoes lmao. If so, then you've set the bar way too low .

TheDevilsBride:

I'll start by answering your analogy about my dad telling me to be as "cautious as a serpent", yada yada yada... Now, I wouldn't call him crazy, if I'm being honest. I might, however, simply just call him confusing, and a bit inconsistent as well. Also, I'd need him to explain himself further. What I would definitely NOT do, since I prefer not to make stuff up, is to engage in the kind of mental gymnastics your ilk are very adept at.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26

“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
John 16:12-13

He promised that God's Holy Spirit will explain further!

TheDevilsBride:

And just in case he doubled down, and told me that the only way to understand his instructions was to blindly trust the interpretations of MaxInDHouse and no one else, except maybe a few others, I’d probably suggest to him that he lay off the sacramental wine for a while, lmao.

There are millions of people like Maximus that will tell you exactly the same thing because we all have the same line of thought globally! John 17:22; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3

TheDevilsBride:

Faith, in my books, requires no evidence, making it impervious to any and all reasoned arguments. Doesn't mean it should be elevated above scrutiny though. Careful and honest examination of your beliefs could not only save you from intellectual stagnancy, maybe you might stumble onto factual information that proves your beliefs! Who knows? Unfortunately for you, it would appear that critical thinking and intellectual honesty are concepts alien to you, and you wish it to remain that way.

I literally laughed out loud (lol) though, when you dropped the cute little spiel of "gathering of sane people wiser than believers", when we have luminaries of science, philosophy, art and literature like Einstein, Newton etc etc, whose contributions to human knowledge, have demonstrated wisdom far beyond the confines of religious dogma, and even till this day, we enjoy the fruits of their endeavors.

A typical atheist for you!
So when a mathematics textbook says "5+5=10" you shouldn't believe or you will follow due process to ?

TheDevilsBride:

So if you like, keep swinging Isaiah 54:17 in people's faces, like a 4 year old toddler brandishing a plastic sword and declaring himself invincible, smh, lmao. Your faith is nothing but a prison where you've deserted your brain in, and threw away the keys, without even looking.

Typical atheist for you!

TheDevilsBride:

And abeg, where is this team, abi gathering of believers, that you think are wise beyond all else, hmmm? With all due respect, I just hope you're not referring of the circus acts we have here on this website, that pretend to be apologists, but can't even tell their left from their right, or tie their own shoes lmao. If so, then you've set the bar way too low .

We have true believers throughout the world today who are fulfilling what God promised in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4
It's not assumptions like Atheism!

MaxInDHouse:


But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26

“I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
John 16:12-13

He promised that God's Holy Spirit will explain further!

I see. So whenever I'm confronted with logical contradictions in the Bible, I can just simply invoke an imaginary, invisible, unverifiable interpreter whose specialty is in retroactive hermeneutical gymnastics? Got you, lmao.

Well, I suppose the first clarification I'll need from the Holy Spirit, is to give a really damn good reason, explaining why an omniscient, omnipotent deity would require all of these labyrinthine communication methods in the first place.

There are millions of people like Maximus that will tell you exactly the same thing because we all have the same line of thought globally! John 17:22; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3

This is, quite ironically, a very solid and remarkable instance of the dangers of mass confirmation bias, as opposed to the universality of truth, lol. I'm sure it's comforting for you to know that you're not alone in your thoughts, just as it is comforting for me to know that I'm not obligated to take the collective opinions of you and your millions of buddies as fact.

A typical atheist for you!
So when a mathematics textbook says "5+5=10" you shouldn't believe or you will follow due process to ?

If indeed I were to "follow due process to ," I could still, in fact, the equation 5+5=10, and come to the conclusion that is TRUE, and I can easily achieve this through the basic fundamental principles of arithmetic that exist to resolve such issues like these. Unfortunately for you, the same cannot be said for the fantastical claims that are found in your holy text. See this difference yet, bucko? One is testable, falsifiable, and firmly grounded in nature and reality. The other one? Not so much.

Typical atheist for you!

Okay? Any more theological insights you wish to regale me with?

We have true believers throughout the world today who are fulfilling what God promised in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4
It's not assumptions like Atheism!

Interesting choice of scripture there, Isaiah 2:2-4, where your God makes promises about swords being sheathed and taken into plowshares, and nations fighting no more wars... except for the part where this vapid prophecy was severely undercut by every single war in recorded history happening after Isaiah penned those utopian verses, lmao. Sounds like your god just straight up sucks spectacularly at keeping promises .

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TheDevilsBride:

I see. So whenever I'm confronted with logical contradictions in the Bible, I can just simply invoke an imaginary, invisible, unverifiable interpreter whose specialty is in retroactive hermeneutical gymnastics? Got you, lmao.

That's where you need enlightenment!

If everyone can understand Jesus won't say some should TEACH the rest! Matthew 28:20

TheDevilsBride:
Well, I suppose the first clarification I'll need from the Holy Spirit, is to give a really damn good reason, explaining why an omniscient, omnipotent deity would require all of these labyrinthine communication methods in the first place.

Where did God tell you that He is omni this omni that?

TheDevilsBride:

This is, quite ironically, a very solid and remarkable instance of the dangers of mass confirmation bias, as opposed to the universality of truth, lol. I'm sure it's comforting for you to know that you're not alone in your thoughts, just as it is comforting for me to know that I'm not obligated to take the collective opinions of you and your millions of buddies as fact.

Good!
So you can be yourself without worrying about whatever others do with their lives since you found it absurd to agree with others!

TheDevilsBride:

If indeed I were to "follow due process to ," I could still, in fact, the equation 5+5=10, and come to the conclusion that is TRUE, and I can easily achieve this through the basic fundamental principles of arithmetic that exist to resolve such issues like these. Unfortunately for you, the same cannot be said for the fantastical claims that are found in your holy text. See this difference yet, bucko? One is testable, falsifiable, and firmly grounded in nature and reality. The other one? Not so much.

There is no process other than counting five and adding extra five so if you decide to choose any other means you'll surely fail!

TheDevilsBride:

Okay? Any more theological insights you wish to regale me with?

Your protest can't change facts Ma!

TheDevilsBride:

Interesting choice of scripture there, Isaiah 2:2-4, where your God makes promises about swords being sheathed and taken into plowshares, and nations fighting no more wars... except for the part where this vapid prophecy was severely undercut by every single war in recorded history happening after Isaiah penned those utopian verses, lmao. Sounds like your god just straight up sucks spectacularly at keeping promises .

If there will be no more wars how do you think people living at the time of this prophecy will know they are fulfilling it?
Ọmọ this will only happen in the midst of those studying God's word with open hearts not the whole world.
That's the import of verse 2 of Isaiah chapter 2

MaxInDHouse:

That's where you need enlightenment!

Nah, I'd rather settle for a coherent narrative that doesn't require a divine spin doctor.

If everyone can understand Jesus won't say some should TEACH the rest! Matthew 28:20

Of course, why not? It's very convenient that your epistemic escape hatch will require absolute deference and submission to only authorized translators of divine ambiguity. The wheels on the bus go round and round, and so does your argument, lol.

Where did God tell you that He is omni this omni that?

I didn't need God to tell me, I used my omnifunctional brain, which, unlike your Holy Spirit, doesn't require divine permission to think critically or recognize logical fallacies, to read and understand the concept of God, as described in the Bible.

Good!

Goody!

So you can be yourself without worrying about whatever others do with their lives since you found it absurd to agree with others!

I'm sure your lens is too thick to see the irony here, of accusing me of not caring about others' opinions, while you've been relentlessly quoting scriptures to me, as if the opinions of ancient desert nomads should have any effect on, and/or dictate my own opinions.

There is no process other than counting five and adding extra five so if you decide to choose any other means you'll surely fail!

Counting is literally the "process" I was referring to, you unwitting exemplar of circular reasoning, lmao.

Your protest can't change facts Ma!

You misspelled "assumptions".

If there will be no more wars how do you think people living at the time of this prophecy will know they are fulfilling it?

Presumably, by not engaging in war, duh, lmao.

Ọmọ this will only happen in the midst of those studying God's word with open hearts not the whole world.

What a loving, and benevolent God, whose promise is only valid for a few, select group of obnoxious yes-men, while the rest of humanity gets to suffer (or enjoy, lol) never-ending war and bloodshed.

That's the import of verse 2 of Isaiah chapter 2

Indeed, such selective benevolence.

TheDevilsBride:

Nah, I'd rather settle for a coherent narrative that doesn't require a divine spin doctor.Of course, why not? It's very convenient that your epistemic escape hatch will require absolute deference and submission to only authorized translators of divine ambiguity. The wheels on the bus go round and round, and so does your argument, lol.

Naaaaaaaaah apart from saying few have been chosen to TEACH others Jesus said we will know the chosen and those deceivers by their FRUITS {Matthew 7:16-18} so while deceivers can't uproot hatred in the hearts of their followers the chosen will completely uproot hatred in the minds of their followers and make them one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers!

TheDevilsBride:

I didn't need God to tell me, I used my omnifunctional brain, which, unlike your Holy Spirit, doesn't require divine permission to think critically or recognize logical fallacies, to read and understand the concept of God, as described in the Bible.

Just as many like you did only to end up fighting and killing their neighbours!

TheDevilsBride:

I'm sure your lens is too thick to see the irony here, of accusing me of not caring about others' opinions, while you've been relentlessly quoting scriptures to me, as if the opinions of ancient desert nomads should have any effect on, and/or dictate my own opinions.

If you truly care as a woman please tell me how people throughout the world can cohabit peacefully without WARS!

TheDevilsBride:

Counting is literally the "process" I was referring to, you unwitting exemplar of circular reasoning, lmao.

So we must all follow the same process shey? That's just what i've been trying to tell you about how to perceive the presence of God!

TheDevilsBride:

You misspelled "assumptions". Presumably, by not engaging in war, duh, lmao.

As a female i know that in your right senses you will cherish a world without wars but this protest you so much want to carry out will not allow you to think straight.

TheDevilsBride:

What a loving, and benevolent God, whose promise is only valid for a few, select group of obnoxious yes-men, while the rest of humanity gets to suffer (or enjoy, lol) never-ending war and bloodshed. Indeed, such selective benevolence.

He promised to DESTROY those ruining our planet home {Revelations 11:18} but as a just God He must see to it that each of you judges yourselves by your own actions after seeing how His peace loving worshipers who will forever inherit the planet {Psalms 37:7-11, 29} in peace and full security live as a sign of divine warning! Matthew 24:14

MaxInDHouse:


Naaaaaaaaah apart from saying few have been chosen to TEACH others Jesus said we will know the chosen and those deceivers by their FRUITS {Matthew 7:16-18} so while deceivers can't uproot hatred in the hearts of their followers the chosen will completely uproot hatred in the minds of their followers and make them one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers!

Mr. Maximus the "fruit" inspector, how do you tell "fruits" that are entirely indistinguishable from the placebo effect, hmmm? And what do you suppose, is the litmus test for these '"fruits"?

Just as many like you did only to end up fighting and killing their neighbours!

My lack of belief isn't the problem, but rather, your belief that your particular brand of it is the only valid one is what fuels all the violence, rage, and fisticuffs. Please, try to keep up. I thought your Holy Spirit was supposed to inspire wisdom, not witless whataboutism, smh.

If you truly care as a woman please tell me how people throughout the world can cohabit peacefully without WARS!

After you, Maximus. Do tell us, how you plan to "cohabit peacefully" with those who don't share your faith, when your holy book is filled with instructions on how to treat infidels. Go on.

So we must all follow the same process shey? That's just what i've been trying to tell you about how to perceive the presence of God!

And I keep telling you that mathematics and deities aren't interchangeable. You're committing a false equivocation fallacy. One can be tested, the other can't be tested. Perhaps you need me to use crayons to explain this elementary distinction better?

As a female i know that in your right senses you will cherish a world without wars but this protest you so much want to carry out will not allow you to think straight.

Is this your new angle? Gender-based condescension?

He promised to DESTROY those ruining our planet home {Revelations 11:18} but as a just God He must see to it that each of you judges yourselves by your own actions after seeing how His peace loving worshipers who will forever inherit the planet {Psalms 37:7-11, 29} in peace and full security live as a sign of divine warning! Matthew 24:14

You've perfectly made your point about God's bias and selective benevolence clear, so no need to keep re-writing these ive-aggressive sticky notes, lmao.

TheDevilsBride:

Mr. Maximus the "fruit" inspector, how do you tell "fruits" that are entirely indistinguishable from the placebo effect, hmmm? And what do you suppose, is the litmus test for these '"fruits"?

When you plant a tree {John 15:1} surely there must be a specific FRUIT you expect to reap nah! Galatians 5:22-23
So the fruit of true religion means adherents will be peace loving worshipers this doesn't say they will be perfect but you will notice the nine qualities of the fruit of God's Holy Spirit permeating their gathering!

TheDevilsBride:

My lack of belief isn't the problem, but rather, your belief that your particular brand of it is the only valid one is what fuels all the violence, rage, and fisticuffs. Please, try to keep up. I thought your Holy Spirit was supposed to inspire wisdom, not witless whataboutism, smh.

How can agreement fuel violence nah?
Ma it's disagreement that leads to chaos as disciples of the Prince of Peace once you disagree with us the command from our Master Lord and King Christ Jesus is to walk away peacefully! Matthew 10:11-13 compare to Proverbs 17:14
So i wonder how that could ever lead to violence o!

TheDevilsBride:

After you, Maximus. Do tell us, how you plan to "cohabit peacefully" with those who don't share your faith, when your holy book is filled with instructions on how to treat infidels. Go on.

We go about searching for friends of peace in every nation {Luke 10:6} so that we can form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers {Act 1:8; Isaiah 2:4} so how does that mean we treat others as infidels?

TheDevilsBride:

And I keep telling you that mathematics and deities aren't interchangeable. You're committing a false equivocation fallacy. One can be tested, one can't. Perhaps you need me to use crayons to explain this elementary distinction better?

You keep amusing me with the highlighted because it's you who refuse to follow the only process given to TEST what we are saying as you just want to do it your own way!

TheDevilsBride:

Is this your new angle? Gender-based condescension?

It's faithlessness that's causing wars in all the earth so as a female i know you should be interested in how to curb it not turning against reasonableness just because you want to protest against what you don't understand.

TheDevilsBride:

You've perfectly made your point about God's bias and selective benevolence clear, so no need to keep re-writing these ive-aggressive sticky notes, lmao.

Call it whatever ma there is no other way mankind can cohabit peacefully other than following the teachings of Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace!

MaxInDHouse:

When you plant a tree {John 15:1} surely there must be a specific FRUIT you expect to reap nah! Galatians 5:22-23

Smh, you just had to cite a Bible verse, and trot out the most generic list of virtues, lmao. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control can all be found also, in Buddhist monasteries and humanist community centers, lol.

So the fruit of true means adherents will be peace loving worshipers this doesn't say they will be perfect but you will notice the nine qualities of the fruit of God's Holy Spirit permeating their gathering!

No problemo. Oya, so how then, do you empirically distinguish between the "fruits" of your Holy Spirit and the result of groupthink, mass delusion, confirmation bias, or mere emotional manipulation, hmmm?

How can agreement fuel violence nah?

Who said it does? Please take a good squint around the corner, and read between the lines, as you've woefully missed the point again, lmao. It is, more specifically, the disagreement among various Christian denominations, over whose version of the divine dictator gets to dictate the of the agreement, that leads to the violence.

Ma it's disagreement that leads to chaos as disciples of the Prince of Peace once you disagree with us the command from our Master Lord and King Christ Jesus is to walk away peacefully! Matthew 10:11-13 compare to Proverbs 17:14

Pardon me as I genuflect before the altar of your hypocrisy, whilst I remind you that your Lord's advice to "walk away peacefully" is a luxury not afforded to the countless unbelievers, pagans, heretics, witches, and infidels slaughtered violently in the name of your Prince of Peace throughout history.

So i wonder how that could ever lead to violence o!

Subtlety isn't your strong suit, I've noticed. Anyways, see above.

We go about searching for friends of peace in every nation {Luke 10:6} so that we can form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers {Act 1:8; Isaiah 2:4} so how does that mean we treat others as infidels?

For the life of me, I'll never understand why people like you are quick to display outright mendacity, cherry-picking verses that fit your narrative, even as you conveniently handwave, and ignore the ones that instruct you to, for example, kill non-believers (Luke 19:27, 2 Chronicles 15:13). You trying to walk the tightrope, with this selective scripture-surfing, is nothing short of bald-faced duplicity.

You keep amusing me with the highlighted because it's you who refuse to follow the only process given to TEST what we are saying saying you must do it your own way!

Test? Oya, with what abeg? Let me guess: blind faith and "just trust me, bro"? Lmao .

It's faithlessness that's causing wars in all the earth so as a female i know you should be interested in how to curb it not turning against reasonableness just because you want to protest against what you don't understand.

The fact that you submit blindly, and without a mind of your own, to ancient superstitions, is already proof that you wouldn't know what reason was, even if it held you down, and pissed in your face. Maybe you should start by consulting those bloody history books and take your time to notice the rather inconvenient correlation between faith and fanaticism, before you come here spouting nonsense in your ignorance, smh, lmao.

Call it whatever ma there is no other way mankind can cohabit peacefully other than following the teachings of Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace!

Call it whatever you'd like as well, but I'm sure the victims and casualties of the Crusades, Inquisitions, colonial genocides, sectarian wars, and other religiously-motivated conflicts would strongly disagree with your trite pronouncements.

TheDevilsBride:

Smh, you just had to cite a Bible verse, and trot out the most generic list of virtues, lmao. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control can all be found also, in Buddhist monasteries and humanist community centers, lol.

What a pity?
How many Buddhists or humanists are going to meet people in their homes to convince them on the reason why they should possess these qualities?
Ọmọ there's a difference between claiming something and WORKING to achieve it. That's faith in action contrary to what you atheists assume about faith!

TheDevilsBride:

No problemo. Oya, so how then, do you empirically distinguish between the "fruits" of your Holy Spirit and the result of groupthink, mass delusion, confirmation bias, or mere emotional manipulation, hmmm?

FRUIT is what we enjoy and sow part of it to multiply, each Christian must continue preaching and teaching people in his or her neighbourhood to become peace loving so if any religion is not doing the same they can't bear the same FRUIT!

TheDevilsBride:

Who said it does? Please take a good squint around the corner, and read between the lines, as you've woefully missed the point again, lmao. It is, more specifically, the disagreement among various Christian denominations, over whose version of the divine dictator gets to dictate the of the agreement, that leads to the violence.

Funny enough true Christians must not harm anyone! Matthew 5:43-48; 10:16; Luke 6:27-28
So say something else because when you see people carrying weapons to kill their neighbours they are not true Christians but Satan's agents planted as weed to confuse people like you! Matthew 13:25

TheDevilsBride:

Pardon me as I genuflect before the altar of your hypocrisy, whilst I remind you that your Lord's advice to "walk away peacefully" is a luxury not afforded to the countless unbelievers, pagans, heretics, witches, and infidels slaughtered violently in the name of your Prince of Peace throughout history.

Such killers are Satan's agents planted to confuse people like you not intelligent people like me. Once anyone carries weapons to a fight such a person is not a Christian! Matthew 26:52

TheDevilsBride:

Subtlety isn't your strong suit, I've noticed. Anyways, see above.
For the life of me, I'll never understand why people like you are quick to display outright mendacity, cherry-picking verses that fit your narrative, even as you conveniently handwave, and ignore the ones that instruct you to, for example, kill non-believers (Luke 19:27, 2 Chronicles 15:13). You trying to walk the tightrope, with this selective scripture-surfing, is nothing short of bald-faced duplicity.

Jesus will surely order his heavenly armies to slaughter enemies of his peaceful people so things will not always be like this but we must remain peaceful to prove we are following his orders when the time comes angels will do their work not humans fighting and killing one another!

TheDevilsBride:

Test? Oya, with what abeg? Let me guess: blind faith and "just trust me, bro"? Lmao .
The fact that you submit blindly, and without a mind of your own, to ancient superstitions, is already proof that you wouldn't know what reason was, even if it held you down, and pissed in your face. Maybe you should start by consulting those bloody history books and take your time to notice the rather inconvenient correlation between faith and fanaticism, before you come here spouting nonsense in your ignorance, smh, lmao.

Funny atheist!
So to you faithful people were fighting and killing their own fellow worshipers back then shey?
Why is it that you atheists don't just want to ascertain things instead you just assume you know it all?
Even when God allows His worshipers to fight it's not about religion but the place where pure worship is established that Satan wants to pollute. So it's not just fighting and killing as you assume.

TheDevilsBride:

Call it whatever you'd like as well, but I'm sure the victims and casualties of the Crusades, Inquisitions, colonial genocides, sectarian wars, and other religiously-motivated conflicts would strongly disagree with your trite pronouncements.

No weapon carrier fighting in of any leader is a Christian that's the truth so your so called history is based on biased protest against the truth!

MaxInDHouse:

What a pity

...a pity, indeed, that so far, your argument can bear no fruits .

How many Buddhists or humanists are going to meet people in their homes to convince them on the reason why they should possess these qualities?

Someone, it seems, has never heard of secular counseling or community outreach programs. He's also, completely in the dark, for some odd reason, about the revolutionary concept of comionate human connection that doesn't require any spurious divine franchise. Is there anything, our friend Maximus here, actually knows about life outside the confines of his religious bubble, hmmm?

Ọmọ there's a difference between claiming something and WORKING to achieve it. That's faith in action contrary to what you atheists assume about faith!

Well, I don't claim a moral high ground, however, I actually and humbly work towards it, without any need for a divine permission slip, or any promise of heavenly brownie points, lol.

FRUIT is what we enjoy and sow part of it to multiply, each Christian must continue preaching and teaching people in his or her neighbourhood to become peace loving so if any religion is not doing the same they can't bear the same FRUIT!

It's pretty convenient that you conflate the metaphorical "FRUIT!" of your faith with the very real consequences of human actions we face everyday, while at the same time, ignoring the glaring absence of a control group to test your funny claims, lol.

Funny enough true Christians must not harm anyone! Matthew 5:43-48; 10:16; Luke 6:27-28

...and you're still playing whack-a-mole, cherry-picking only those scriptures that your pacifist stance, and still not addressing the plethora of ages that condone violence, genocide, slavery, bloodlust etc etc, acting as if they don't exist. The way you keep running in circles, repeating yourself, I just hope you don't dizzy yourself too much, and out from disorientation, lmao.

So say something else because when you see people carrying weapons to kill their neighbours they are not true Christians but Satan's agents planted as weed to confuse people like you! Matthew 13:25

Why you sounding like you getting worked up, lmao? Anyway, I didn't want to go down this route initially as I suspected, and still suspect, that you clearly have troubles, with comprehending basic cues and elements of logic. But at any rate, I'm only going to cite this here for readers that might care to know, that you've been committing a logical fallacy known as the No True Scotsman fallacy.

No true Scotsman or appeal to purity is an informal fallacy in which one modifies a prior claim in response to a counterexample by asserting the counterexample is excluded by definition.[1][2][3] Rather than itting error or providing evidence to disprove the counterexample, the original claim is changed by using a non-substantive modifier such as "true", "pure", "genuine", "authentic", "real", or other similar .[4][2]

Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt.[1] The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:[5]

Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

I only take comfort in the knowledge that being a JW yourself, most other Christians consider you a heretic and infidel. So you're pretty much hellbound, in their book, lmao

Such killers are Satan's agents planted to confuse people like you not intelligent people like me. Once anyone carries weapons to a fight such a person is not a Christian! Matthew 26:52

As usual, you'll always look for a fall guy to absolve your tribe of any responsibility for the atrocities committed in the name of your Lord. Nothing new to see here.

Jesus will surely order his heavenly armies to slaughter enemies of his peaceful people so things will not always be like this but we must remain peaceful to prove we are following his orders when the time comes angels will do their work not humans fighting and killing one another!

I see the logic here, outsourcing the dirty work to divine hitmen, while you reap the rewards of moral superiority, lmao.

Funny atheist!

Your cognitive dissonance is the real comedy routine here, I must confess, lol.

So to you faithful people were fighting and killing their own fellow worshipers back then shey?

Absolutely, you're very damn right, they were, wiith a fervor that would make a serial killer look like an amateur enthusiast, lmao.

Why is it that you atheists don't just want to ascertain things instead you just assume you know it all?

As a matter of fact, "ascertaining things" is precisely what led me away from the fairy tales you're still clutching at, so desperately. Take you own advice sometime, and "ascertain things" for yourself, lmao. You'd be surprised what happens to your mind when you apply critical thinking instead of theological Stockholm syndrome.

Even when God allows His worshipers to fight it's not about religion but the place where pure worship is established that Satan wants to pollute. So it's not just fighting and killing as you assume.

I truly mean no offense here, but this isn't even a coherent sentence, let alone a viable explanation to present as justification, for the endless trail of violence and bloodshed that, as evidenced by history, follows in the wake of exercising blind faith. Perhaps you can explain to us why your God needs to allow his worshippers to fight any battles in the first place? Is he incapable of resolving issues without recourse to needless violence?

No weapon carrier fighting in of any leader is a Christian that's the truth so your so called history is based on biased protest against the truth!

You know, I feel a soft spot for you at times, reading your robotic responses, lol. Your naivete would actually be charming if it weren't so monumentally dangerous.